B&N
Seasonal RV’er
2021 272VRK
Posts: 229
|
Post by B&N on Aug 24, 2021 15:45:03 GMT -5
This maybe our ongoing saga on electrical challenges.... had the issue of not being able to run off battery for 8 months but the software panel upgrade seems to of solved it. We have the 2021 272VRK.
The Conv Breaker has now tripped 3 times over 2 months. This week I have the camper plug into our 30amp service with an adapter into EMS unit into RV 50 amp cord into TT. Besides the small items that run, we're only running a dehumidifier in the camper that I drain every day or two. Yesterday, I went in and all the lights were out. But strange the dehumidifier was still running plugged into the outlet over the kitchen counter. So I dumped the water, checked the battery disconnect was still on and went over to the EMS and everything looked fine. I put the tray/bucket back in the dehumidifier and turned it back on. So I thought okay time to check the breakers and the CONV fuse had tripped (3rd time now).
So I guess I need to learn more about converters and what they actually run. I thought all power went through it and I would not of expected the dehumidifier to be able to run.
So can anyone explain this to me? and/or have a good YouTube that I need to watch so I understand this component more.
FYI - I'm taking unit back to dealer for a Slide issue on front bedroom so I'll see what they say and have them check out what is going on.
Any thoughts, suggestions or learnings appreciated. TIA
|
|
|
Post by navylcdr on Aug 25, 2021 6:24:37 GMT -5
There are two electrical systems in the RV. 120 volts AC and 12 volts DC. 120 volts AC is for your standard household type appliances such as A/C, the standard electrical outlets, microwave oven, usually TVs (but there are 12 volt DC TVs available). The converter also uses 120 volts AC input to create (convert to) 12 volts DC to supply 12 volts DC loads and charge the battery(ies). If you have a residential type refrigerator it will be 120 volts AC. You should have 120 volts AC available any time you are plugged into a source of shore power, such as your 30 amp service or a generator. Some RVs have inverters that will produce limited 120 volts AC from the battery, but yours likely does not.
The 12 volt DC side has two sources of power, the converter and the battery. When you are plugged into shore power, the converter should be supplying 12 volts DC to all the 12 volt loads as well as charging the battery. It sounds like you have a bad converter, and since that is the component that charges the battery, your battery is now dead. A good, full recharge of the battery may bring it to life, but it is likely damaged from being allowed to go completely dead. 12 volt DC components in an RV will include lights; water pump; control boards for furnace, water heater and refrigerator; furnace fan; exhaust fans; co/propane detector; tank level detectors; and radio/antenna booster. They will run off the battery when not plugged in to shore power and should run off the converter when plugged in.
|
|
B&N
Seasonal RV’er
2021 272VRK
Posts: 229
|
Post by B&N on Aug 25, 2021 6:34:13 GMT -5
Thanks ya I need to learn more. I don't believe the battery was not dead - just everything off.
So I would think the electrical outlets would be running of the 120 volts and active when connected to shore power. In this case, the CONV fuse was tripped and my dehumidifier was plugged into the outlet above the kitchen counter. The dehumidifier was still running but the panel was out etc. When I reset the fuse the camper came back to life and I believe the battery was fine.
Next time it trips, I'll double check the battle as I've got a Victor BMV 712 Smart battery monitor that we had installed, Actually, I believe I can check the history on the device too so I'll look at that. We added this so we can monitor our power consumption as our next step is solar in the next year.
So my question is, why was the dehumidifier still able to run off the outlet under the cabinets in kitchen?
|
|
|
Post by navylcdr on Aug 25, 2021 6:39:03 GMT -5
Thanks ya I need to learn more. I don't believe the battery was not dead - just everything off. So I would think the electrical outlets would be running of the 120 volts and active when connected to shore power. In this case, the CONV fuse was tripped and my dehumidifier was plugged into the outlet above the kitchen counter. The dehumidifier was still running but the panel was out etc. When I reset the fuse the camper came back to life and I believe the battery was fine. Next time it trips, I'll double check the battle as I've got a Victor BMV 712 Smart battery monitor that we had installed, Actually, I believe I can check the history on the device too so I'll look at that. So my question is, why was the dehumidifier still able to run off the outlet under the cabinets in kitchen? Because the outlet is 120 volts AC and runs directly off the shore power. The converter has nothing to do with the 120 volts AC system, except that it uses a 120 volt AC input (from the circuit breaker for the converter, not a fuse) to convert it to 12 volts DC to feed the 12 volt electrical loads. You also need to check battery voltage with the converter turned off. If you check voltage with the converter turned on you are only measuring the output voltage of the converter, not battery voltage. Simply turn off the battery disconnect switch, wait a couple hours, and measure voltage at the battery terminals with a simple voltmeter. You said you had no lights, that means: 1. The converter is not outputting 12 volts DC AND either 2. The battery is disconnected OR 3. The battery is dead.
|
|
B&N
Seasonal RV’er
2021 272VRK
Posts: 229
|
Post by B&N on Aug 25, 2021 6:48:38 GMT -5
Thank you got it... I was thinking backwards. So 12 volt stuff was out. And we'll check the battery. Thank you!
|
|
|
Post by WrkrBee on Aug 25, 2021 12:21:58 GMT -5
Because the outlet is 120 volts AC and runs directly off the shore power. The converter has nothing to do with the 120 volts AC system, ... The converter is the distribution center for the 120vac circuits in the camper. Converters can have between 2 to 8+ breakers to protect the 120vac circuits.
|
|
|
Post by thewolfgang on Aug 25, 2021 15:12:27 GMT -5
A somewhat simplified circuit diagram can be found here: toyotamotorhome.org/forums/uploads/post-4544-0-70285900-1339594282.jpg Basically, there are typically several circuits with breakers in the AC (120V) component, as well as several 12V fuses (and circuits) in the DC component. There also is usually a converter (& battery charger) in the AC component creating a bridge to the 12V system, charging the battery, and supplying 12V power, when plugged into shore power. When Not plugged into shore power, all your power comes from the battery. If you trip a fuse, just like in a home, that circuit is out of commission until reset. If your converter fuse is out, that means that your 12V system, even when plugged into shore power, will only be able to run off the battery, until drained. Your monitoring panel will draw from this, as will your motion sensor lights and your gas/carbon monoxide detector. -- Basically, this will drain your battery over time. And one more note: During winter, bring the battery in to protect it from freezing, but do not set it on concrete as that tends to drain the battery, and destroy it.
|
|
|
Post by navylcdr on Aug 26, 2021 5:50:29 GMT -5
Because the outlet is 120 volts AC and runs directly off the shore power. The converter has nothing to do with the 120 volts AC system, ... The converter is the distribution center for the 120vac circuits in the camper. Converters can have between 2 to 8+ breakers to protect the 120vac circuits. I'm sorry, but that is just entirely incorrect. I would suggest you read up on RV electrical systems. The converter may be a component located in the power center, but it has nothing to do with distributing 120 volt AC power. www.etrailer.com/dept-pg-RV_Converters.aspxProgressive Dynamics RV Power Control Center with AC/DC Panel and Converter/Smart Charger - 75 Amp The top section containing the AC circuit breakers and the DC fuses is the RV Power Control Center with AC/DC Panel (also called the distribution center and distribution panels). The bottom horizontal section is the converter and it's ONLY purpose is to take 120 volts AC from the circuit breaker panel on the left side of the upper section and convert it to 12 volt DC as a supply to the 12 volt DC distribution panel on the right side of the upper section. The battery will also connect to the DC distribution panel on the ride side of the upper section and it will be charged by the converter when 120 volts AC is available, or it will supply the 12 volt DC to the DC distribution panel only when 120 volts AC is not available. If you want to replace the converter only, then you disconnect the green, white and black wires from the AC section of the power center, disconnect the black and white wires connected to the DC section of the power center, and remove the converter from the power center.
|
|
|
Post by WrkrBee on Aug 26, 2021 7:33:49 GMT -5
The top section containing the AC circuit breakers and the DC fuses is the RV Power Control Center with AC/DC Panel (also called the distribution center and distribution panels). I know how they work. It's a matter of terminology. On small campers, they have "converters", which contain 120vac breakers and 12vdc fuses. It distributes both. They are now calling them Power Control Centers (which contain a converter). So the "Power Center" distributes 120vac with the row of breakers.
|
|
|
Post by navylcdr on Aug 26, 2021 11:06:13 GMT -5
You are correct. They are now calling them Power Centers, which contains a converter. I guess I am just not old enough to call a Power Center a converter. If the converter contains 120vac breakers and distributes 120vac, then one of those breakers in the row will be labelled converter. So what does the breaker for the converter that is in the converter interrupt power to? The whole enter box containing the row of circuit breakers killing power to everything? If my battery won't charge when connected to shore power, and I order a replacement converter, I am expecting to get a circuit board or a box that has three wires to connect to an AC power source and two wires to connect to the DC panel. If my microwave has no power going to it, and I say that I need a circuit breaker for my converter that goes to the microwave outlet, I would expect to get a very confused look from a polite person, and I would expect the less than polite person to laugh out loud.
|
|
marjim
Weekender RV’er
Retired EE, Vietnam Vet, God, Faith, Family & Flag. St. Louis area
Posts: 99
|
Post by marjim on Sept 9, 2021 14:37:42 GMT -5
Hey all, I was wondering if you isolated the problem with your 12v systems. If not yet, you might try switching all the 12vdc breakers off and run on shore power. If your converter/power center still shorts than you know it's not due to a downstream load. Also, if this is a new symptom, that just came up, maybe consider isolating each circuit. The only reason I bring this up is because my unit had a problem with the auto CB unit on the POS connection from the battery. The wire post on one side was corroded at the ring connector to the CB protector. When I removed the red rubber cover the ring and wire just came off. So I am sure I was not getting a good connection. This may have led to my battery not charging fully. I also had the 8ga wire broken off at the ring terminal. It looks like I was getting only 1/2 the strands. When I removed the old and rusted unit I saw some black on the open / broken wires. Did not check to see if it was carbon or road grime but I haven't run it since then. I am in the process of rewiring it now. You could have your converter/inverter shorting out if you have a ground short on a circuit or on the charge line back to the battery. Same could occur if the connection was loose or your wire has broken down/ mechanical stress and not all strands are being used. Just curious about your results from the tests and checks the group already sent you. Jim
|
|
3rdof5
Weekender RV’er
Finally camping season!
Posts: 55
|
Post by 3rdof5 on Sept 18, 2021 9:54:16 GMT -5
It sounds to me that you have a bad 12 volt connection to your batteries, possibly a faulty 12 volt 30 amp circuit breaker (typically located near the battery disconnect switch). I say this for 2 reasons, First, when the breaker for your convertor trips, that simply shuts off the 120vac supply to the convertor, it will not affect any 12 volt systems if your batteries are good and properly connected, it will simply not charge the batteries. Second, if the batteries are not making a good connection to the 12 volt system then your convertor must supply all 12 volt power with no help from the batteries. This creates a heavy load on the convertor, particularly if you operate the slides which draw high 12v current. Normally a convertor can handle that current draw with no issues but if the 12volt connections have issues and are weak, the current draw will be higher and could cause the breaker to trip on your convertor. Considering that your unit has had a history of electrical issues, possibly your convertor itself has been damaged and is tripping the breaker due to an internal issue.
|
|
B&N
Seasonal RV’er
2021 272VRK
Posts: 229
|
Post by B&N on Sept 20, 2021 6:42:07 GMT -5
Thanks TT is going back in today 9/20. The CONV breaker has tripped 2 more times. The dealer should check it out but I have a question. What gauge wire is run front to back on these trailers? I seem to remember on one of my warranty trips that our TT has 12 gauge. Should the wire be a 10 gauge? It's so good to have this forum to ask and share. TIA
|
|
|
Post by WrkrBee on Sept 20, 2021 10:35:50 GMT -5
Thanks TT is going back in today 9/20. The CONV breaker has tripped 2 more times. The dealer should check it out but I have a question. What gauge wire is run front to back on these trailers? I seem to remember on one of my warranty trips that our TT has 12 gauge. Should the wire be a 10 gauge? It's so good to have this forum to ask and share. TIA If the converter is designed to be connected to a 30 amp pedestal, supply wire should be 10 gauge to carry 30 amps. When does the CONV breaker trip? A clamp-on amp meter will tell you what the converter is using.
|
|
B&N
Seasonal RV’er
2021 272VRK
Posts: 229
|
Post by B&N on Sept 20, 2021 15:40:05 GMT -5
Thanks TT is going back in today 9/20. The CONV breaker has tripped 2 more times. The dealer should check it out but I have a question. What gauge wire is run front to back on these trailers? I seem to remember on one of my warranty trips that our TT has 12 gauge. Should the wire be a 10 gauge? It's so good to have this forum to ask and share. TIA If the converter is designed to be connected to a 30 amp pedestal, supply wire should be 10 gauge to carry 30 amps. When does the CONV breaker trip? A clamp-on amp meter will tell you what the converter is using. Thanks.. well I dropped it off A&L says they remember telling me that is was 12 gauge. Our camper is a 50 amp STT272VRK but we were connected to our 30 amp with a pig tail and EMS. A&L our dealer in Richmond is going to have the service guys confirm then I'll have to figure out my next steps with Venture ..... Our one year Venture warranty ends the end of November.
|
|